|  | Topic : LOCKED ECU |  |
| | | TEZ | | Set |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 15/03/2017 | | Posts | : | 45 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 04 Oct 2017 - 22:23 Post title : LOCKED ECU | | | Hi Guys, I've read some posts on here regards locked ECU's on the newer Tbirds, I would like to share a post from another UK based forum regards a question asked directly to Triumph regards a change of exhaust and a possible re-tune/ flashof ecu.
This is the response he received -
Quote:
Thank you for your enquiry.
I can confirm that there is no tune to support the accessory silencers for Euro 4 model Thunderbirds, however the bike will adapt to them over time.
If the ECU is flashed by an outside source, it is possible that the ECU will be locked and can only be reopened by the factory.
If you decide to fit the accessory silencers, it will be fine on the standard software.
Best regards
Pete
Triumph GB.
PS
F.Y.I.
I should add this guy has a 2017 T'Bird storm, he was going to decat it and fit some David Platt mufflers,
| | Post edited by TEZ on 04 Oct 2017 - 22:27 |
|
| | | aussietbird | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 11/09/2012 | | Posts | : | 263 | | Location | : | WODONGA, VIC, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 23 Aug 2020 - 05:11 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: TEZ) | | |
TEZ wrote:
Hi Guys, I've read some posts on here regards locked ECU's on the newer Tbirds, I would like to share a post from another UK based forum regards a question asked directly to Triumph regards a change of exhaust and a possible re-tune/ flashof ecu.
This is the response he received -
Quote:
Thank you for your enquiry.
I can confirm that there is no tune to support the accessory silencers for Euro 4 model Thunderbirds, however the bike will adapt to them over time.
If the ECU is flashed by an outside source, it is possible that the ECU will be locked and can only be reopened by the factory.
If you decide to fit the accessory silencers, it will be fine on the standard software.
Best regards
Pete
Triumph GB.
PS
F.Y.I.
I should add this guy has a 2017 T'Bird storm, he was going to decat it and fit some David Platt mufflers, |
|
Yet more total garbage from the mouths at Triumph. "Euro 4 model Thunderbirds, however the bike will adapt to them over time".
I would love to know how.
Considering the use of narrow band lambda sensors not wide band.
The only possible adaptions that the ECU can make are from the information, such as air temp, barometric pressure, and in closed loop mode, via the exhaust Lambda censors.
So, how the hell can fueling adjustments be made, to account for a less restrictive, freer flowing exhaust whilst under power open loop mode?
In layman's terms it can not, will not. Totally and utterly improbable in fact impossible. It is in fact in open loop mode, under power that AFR's are so critical.
Pete should hang his head in shame, as his complete lack of knowledge is just astounding. No little wonder so many Triumph techs are so bloody useless
| The more I understand the human race, the more I love my bike.
|
|
| | | Bender | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 26/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 659 | | Location | : | Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 23 Aug 2020 - 06:34 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: aussietbird) | | | Makes you wonder how they Built such a great bike in the first place especially how the early ones are starting to look like the better ones, not trying to be controversial but anyone thats owned an 09 - 10 model from new (like me) will understand
| BENDER Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.
Thunderbird 1600, Foran exhaust,cat eliminator,Twin T Bars, K and N filter, Led Headlight, Rivco driving Lights, Viking Bags,quick release sissy Bar,.Joker oil pressure Gauge met-cruise seat Dyno Tune + more
|
|
| | | aussietbird | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 11/09/2012 | | Posts | : | 263 | | Location | : | WODONGA, VIC, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 23 Aug 2020 - 09:59 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: Bender) | | |
Bender wrote:
Makes you wonder how they Built such a great bike in the first place especially how the early ones are starting to look like the better ones, not trying to be controversial but anyone thats owned an 09 - 10 model from new (like me) will understand |
|
Indeed Dave, it beggars belief.
But there is plenty of so called experts out there, which does not exclude, some aftermarket producers as well as retailers, who claim almost improbable HP and torque gains with their products, and under the very same breath claim that the ECU will adapt.
But when challenged, turn a pissy shade of water.
I know from testing, that even my tune, (yep it might say in the fueling tables mid 12's, but the reality is, on power runs its true AFR is mid 13's. Now using those real figures, and if memory serves me (even on some of the earlier Std tunes, not euro 4 compliant), scattered in those tables are (its been a long long time since I looked at one) there is 14.2AFR's inturn with an open exhaust decat etc a conceivable 15.2 afr on open loop is just plain ludicrous.
Therefore it is not inconceivable, with a standard Euro 4 tune, a decat exhaust and a freer flowing muffler set-up, and a freer flowing air filter system, that the true AFR's could well be, leaner under power (open loop mode) than under cruise (closed loop mode).
How's that for an engine destroying scenario.
All brought to those who would choose to believe it, and those who just fail to understand Open and Closed loop EFI systems, and those who have nothing more than a vested interest in making a quick buck.
| The more I understand the human race, the more I love my bike.
|
|
| | | Linkdog | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,923 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
|
| | Posted : 23 Aug 2020 - 13:42 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: aussietbird) | | | I guess when you burn holes in your pistons you're fully adapted.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
|
|
| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
|
| | Posted : 23 Aug 2020 - 14:54 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: Linkdog) | | | Attack the problem at the sensor?
Wonder what component/chip gets replaced to unlock ECU....
A friend with a new Aprilia purchased some sort of control box to solve a similar problem, will ask him about it tomorrow.
| 
|
|
| | | Bender | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 26/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 659 | | Location | : | Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 24 Aug 2020 - 00:44 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: aussietbird) | | | Just to prove you correct Aussiebird, not that proof is needed I had this Dyno done many years ago running Forans, K and N and and a foran crossover.
Neville Lush is a very experienced tuner.
from memory I think he spent about 5 hours on the Dyno. I am very happy with what he achieved he only gained a small increase but I think this only brought it up to factory spec.
But it does NOT run too lean now, I did not expect too gain any more power from a Dyno tune it just changed the curve for the way I ride.
My point is you cannot get more without making other changes, Mechanical etc.
Just on a side note he thought the Forans were more restrictive than Tors when adjusting AFR. it does run a little rich when cold with a stock seat.
please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood what he said.
| BENDER Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.
Thunderbird 1600, Foran exhaust,cat eliminator,Twin T Bars, K and N filter, Led Headlight, Rivco driving Lights, Viking Bags,quick release sissy Bar,.Joker oil pressure Gauge met-cruise seat Dyno Tune + more
|
|
| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
|
| | Posted : 24 Aug 2020 - 02:40 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: Bender) | | | Interesting, I know no two dyno machines will give the same readings, but I compared yours to mine. My max HP is 84.1 @ 4630 rpm and Max torque is 153.8 @ 2640 rpm. I run the meerkat crossover and short tors. 
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
|
|
| | | aussietbird | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 11/09/2012 | | Posts | : | 263 | | Location | : | WODONGA, VIC, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 24 Aug 2020 - 05:56 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Interesting, I know no two dyno machines will give the same readings, but I compared yours to mine. My max HP is 84.1 @ 4630 rpm and Max torque is 153.8 @ 2640 rpm. I run the meerkat crossover and short tors. |
|
Yep Lee spot on the money there.
The only figures I really study are the figures from the 5 gas analyzer.
I prefer to look at Hp and Torque curves, in the form of shape, and smoothness, rather than just outright pissin rights.
| The more I understand the human race, the more I love my bike.
|
|
| | | aussietbird | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 11/09/2012 | | Posts | : | 263 | | Location | : | WODONGA, VIC, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 24 Aug 2020 - 07:49 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: MotorMac) | | |
MotorMac wrote:
Attack the problem at the sensor?
. |
|
Sensor interuptus. Hmmm. bit like coitus interuptus, falls well short of the, end game.
Yes, Booster plug is one brand name that comes to mind. Sure it tips in more fuel by cheating the ECU into thinkin its 10 degrees cooler than it really is. But the reality is and I would almost wanna put a wager on it, that in fact the HP and or Torque would drop.
And here is the reasoning behind that statement. The more fuel added to the combustion mixture, the slower the burn. Therefore the timing of the completion of that burn, will be shifted further away from the TDC on the ignition cycle.
Just by adding fuel is not the answer, never has been never will be. Advancement of the ignition is required to correct the slower burn back to x degrees after TDC.
As far as locked ECU go, the only, and it pains me to say this the Dynojet Power Commander and yes another Sensor interuptus, but with adjustment, and well capable of addressing both fuel and ignition. Not too sure on the F/L switching.
| The more I understand the human race, the more I love my bike.
|
|
| | | Bender | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 26/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 659 | | Location | : | Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 24 Aug 2020 - 08:51 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Interesting, I know no two dyno machines will give the same readings, but I compared yours to mine. My max HP is 84.1 @ 4630 rpm and Max torque is 153.8 @ 2640 rpm. I run the meerkat crossover and short tors. |
|
So is there any logical explanation for you having more Torque, is it the tuning or another reason eg the dyno reading I am just curious. is yours a 1600 or 1700
| BENDER Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.
Thunderbird 1600, Foran exhaust,cat eliminator,Twin T Bars, K and N filter, Led Headlight, Rivco driving Lights, Viking Bags,quick release sissy Bar,.Joker oil pressure Gauge met-cruise seat Dyno Tune + more
|
|
| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
|
| | Posted : 25 Aug 2020 - 20:36 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: aussietbird) | | |
aussietbird wrote:
MotorMac wrote:
Attack the problem at the sensor?
|
|
Sensor interuptus. Hmmm. bit like coitus interuptus, falls well short of the, end game.
|
|
Gizmo for the Aprilla overrides a servo/valve in exhaust. Apparently that's becoming a "thing" with some brands, a servo/valve adjusting exhaust pressure. Sounds like potential trouble to me, can't imagine a white-hot valve lasting very long, but I know nothing about how it's engineered.
|
|
|
| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
|
| | Posted : 26 Aug 2020 - 00:12 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: aussietbird) | | |
aussietbird wrote:
MotorMac wrote:
Attack the problem at the sensor?
. |
|
Sensor interuptus. Hmmm. bit like coitus interuptus, falls well short of the, end game.
Yes, Booster plug is one brand name that comes to mind. Sure it tips in more fuel by cheating the ECU into thinkin its 10 degrees cooler than it really is. But the reality is and I would almost wanna put a wager on it, that in fact the HP and or Torque would drop.
And here is the reasoning behind that statement. The more fuel added to the combustion mixture, the slower the burn. Therefore the timing of the completion of that burn, will be shifted further away from the TDC on the ignition cycle.
Just by adding fuel is not the answer, never has been never will be. Advancement of the ignition is required to correct the slower burn back to x degrees after TDC.
As far as locked ECU go, the only, and it pains me to say this the Dynojet Power Commander and yes another Sensor interuptus, but with adjustment, and well capable of addressing both fuel and ignition. Not too sure on the F/L switching.
|
|
Hey Mick, check out the Dynojet website and the newish PV3, a lot of the Indian fellas are swearing by it, also look at FuelMoto
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
|
|
| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
|
| | Posted : 26 Aug 2020 - 00:16 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: Bender) | | |
Bender wrote:
Leethal wrote:
Interesting, I know no two dyno machines will give the same readings, but I compared yours to mine. My max HP is 84.1 @ 4630 rpm and Max torque is 153.8 @ 2640 rpm. I run the meerkat crossover and short tors. |
|
So is there any logical explanation for you having more Torque, is it the tuning or another reason eg the dyno reading I am just curious. is yours a 1600 or 1700 |
|
If the dynos are close then the only reason would be the mufflers, yes mine is 1600 and was tuned on 91 although runs happier on 95 when I can find it. Just as an aside, I've switched from K&N to stock paper filter a few times since the dyno (it was tuned on paper) and no difference although my 02 sensors are not there, so I've settled on the oem paper, just don't trust the oil ones after seeing what was collected on the out let side of it.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
|
|
| | | aussietbird | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 11/09/2012 | | Posts | : | 263 | | Location | : | WODONGA, VIC, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 02 Sep 2020 - 08:10 Post title : Re: LOCKED ECU (Re: MotorMac) | | | MotorMac wrote:
Attack the problem at the sensor?
|
|
Sensor interuptus. Hmmm. bit like coitus interuptus, falls well short of the, end game.
|
|
Gizmo for the Aprilla overrides a servo/valve in exhaust. Apparently that's becoming a "thing" with some brands, a servo/valve adjusting exhaust pressure. Sounds like potential trouble to me, can't imagine a white-hot valve lasting very long, but I know nothing about how it's engineered. |
|
I had a bike with the servo/valve thingmajig. Suprising it worked extremely well.
However being the tinkerer that I am, I decided to remove it, when I did a muffler upgrade 
Opened a rather big can of worms, yes I used one of those plug and play units to tell the ECU that the valve was open. But I could never get it to run right on the money. Which lead me down the money pit of removing secondary throttle butterflies and trying all manner of different length and shaped inlet trumpets.
Yet still I clocked better lap times at the Phillip Island race track and on the drag strip, with the whole thing in stock trim.
And it was one of those brands that allows no access to the ECU, which is the the ground of Dynojets business.
| The more I understand the human race, the more I love my bike.
| | Post edited by aussietbird on 02 Sep 2020 - 08:15 |
|